Lieutenant-General (Ret’d) Andrew Leslie, former Commander of the Canadian Army and one of Canada’s most experienced military strategists, has long been a prominent voice on global security. Having also served as a Member of Parliament and Chief Government Whip, he brings a deep understanding of both defence and government decision-making.
In this interview with Ukrinform, General Leslie offers a candid assessment of the trajectory of Russia’s war against Ukraine, Ukraine’s military innovation, and the shortcomings of Western defence policies. He warns that the world is facing its most dangerous moment since the end of the Second World War, and argues that democracies must rearm, honour their commitments, and recognize Ukraine’s struggle not as a distant conflict, but as a frontline in the defence of global stability.
NATO AND THE REST OF THE FREE WORLD MUST INCREASE SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE
- General Leslie, how do you assess the current state of the war in Ukraine?
- Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) and the Ukrainian people have done a magnificent job defending their country, their homes, their livelihoods, and their families. Despite all sorts of supply issues and people changing their minds on weapons systems and what they’re willing to send, Ukrainians can be extraordinarily proud of their achievements. Tragically, however, Russia doesn’t appear to be stopping, nor do they seem to be deterred. That’s why it’s so important for NATO and the rest of the free world to step up to the plate and help Ukraine with everything they can.
- Ukrainians appreciate Canada’s early and consistent support. In your view, what more can Canada and its allies do now that the war has become protracted?
- I’m delighted to hear that the Ukrainian people are thankful for the support that we and our friends and allies have sent. But as a Canadian who has watched this issue very closely both professionally and personally - I’m not terribly proud of the Canadian contribution. More than 40 million people live in Canada, our economy is over two trillion dollars, and if you look at the amount of equipment we’ve actually sent to Ukraine, Canada is by no means leading the pack. We should have been able to provide 155mm ammunition, but we shut down our factory a couple of years ago. We should have been able to provide more than eight tanks, but we didn’t buy enough to meet our own needs, let alone send them overseas. So Canada can and should do more.
- Do Western countries have a clear long-term strategy for Ukraine’s victory?
- The problem with having lots of friends and allies is that each one can have a different opinion on what victory looks like or how to achieve stability. Opinions differ - that’s the nature of having many allies who think slightly differently. The key point is that most Ukrainians have a clear idea of what they want to see happen. Increasingly, NATO members - not necessarily the United States, but certainly others - are focusing more on what Ukraine says it needs, rather than simply deciding what they want to give. That’s a good shift.
SOLDIERS ALL OVER THE WORLD ARE STUDYING THE LESSONS LEARNED ON THE BATTLEFIELD BY THE AFU
- How do you assess Ukraine's ability to adapt to modern warfare?
- History books will be written about the performance of the AFU. Soldiers all over the world are studying the lessons learned on the battlefield by the AFU. The Ukrainian Armed Forces, with far fewer numbers and equipment coming from many different regions and countries - meaning it's not even standardized - have shown a masterful ability to integrate systems, whether self-propelled guns, rocket launchers, drones, or innovative uses of helicopters and ground vehicles. Within days of delivery into Ukrainian territory, they put these systems into service. It’s been magnificent. Thanks to their initiative, their willingness to fight to the death, and their ability to think outside the box, they’ve managed to keep the Russian bear as far away as they possibly could. But of course, the Russians don’t seem to care how many Russians are killed - they just keep coming.
- NATO officials often say they are learning from Ukraine, but NATO itself is facing its greatest test since the Cold War. How do you see the Alliance evolving, and where does Ukraine fit in that picture?
- I would say this is the most dangerous time since the Alliance was formed. Why? Because you have nuclear power that has invaded Europe. It has introduced high-intensity, incredibly bloody warfare using barbaric tactics. If we get this wrong, it could have global consequences. We all hope it won’t happen - and I don’t think it will - but it could lead to further chaos or even a wider war.
- Do you believe NATO will eventually invite Ukraine to join?
- I’ve been a NATO general. I know the NATO documents, I know the rules - and you can’t join NATO if you’re currently fighting a war. That’s the first issue, and it’s a really tough one. The second issue is that accession must be unanimous, and there are NATO members, such as Hungary, maybe one or two others, who likely won’t support Ukraine joining. I’m not sure how that can be overcome. Eventually, of course, everyone wants Ukraine to be secure, and everyone wants the war to end without giving away Ukrainian territory. But figuring out how to do all that within the current rules is going to be really complicated.
- Does that mean political caution and reluctance to accept Ukraine will prevail in the foreseeable future, even after the war ends?
- I don’t know, and I don’t want to speculate because I don’t have all the facts. I don’t know what the current thinking is in the United States - the key player in all of this - especially when it comes to negotiations with Russia to stop the war. I don’t really know how many NATO members would actually support Ukraine joining if it came to a vote. I sincerely hope Ukraine does eventually join, but in the short term, I suspect the war is so intense and passions are so inflamed that several nations won’t be able to support Ukraine’s aspirations. I believe Canada has been supportive of Ukraine joining, but our influence at the centres of power is not as strong as it once was.
DEMOCRACIES HAVE TO REARM
- You've spoken about the dangers of today’s global politics and a re-emerging age of superpower confrontation. How should democracies prepare for the possibility of a wider global conflict?
- We have to rearm. We have to educate voters and politicians on the importance of following through on defence commitments. NATO must become stronger, with or without the United States. Canada committed many years ago to spending 2% of GDP on defence, and only now are we finally getting there, but recently the number has gone up to 5%. We have to achieve that because it’s our contribution to friends and allies. The best way to stop a war is not to fight it - it’s to deter it. You prevent people from attacking you by showing that you’re strong. If you’re weak, dictatorships might come after you. Right now, many nations have not met their defence obligations, haven’t spent proportionally on their budgets, and have large portions of territory that are not defended. This is not a safe time to be doing that.
- How serious is the risk of escalation beyond Ukraine - in the Arctic, the Indo-Pacific, or elsewhere?
- That’s unknown. The risk is as large as the leadership of various totalitarian states decides it should be. The leaders of China, North Korea, Russia, Belarus, Iran and a couple more are determined to use the war in Ukraine as an excuse to expand their territorial ambitions and challenge respect for international law. It’s a very dangerous time. That’s why we have to think seriously about making fair and proportional contributions to our defence, which, until a few weeks ago, we were not doing. So I’m very pleased to see the Canadian government has allocated money for defence - something we should have done ten years ago. But at least we’re starting.
- From your perspective, is Canada ready for the realities of today’s world?
- I think the leadership of Canada is much more ready today than it was six months ago. The people of Canada are also starting to better understand the importance of having friends and allies we can turn to if we’re threatened. But the other side of that is - if we expect our friends to help us, we must be prepared to help them. For many years, a lot of Canadians assumed the Americans would protect us. And I’m sure they’ll remain our friends and allies for many years, as they’re our closest neighbour, but that’s no longer a valid assumption. Every nation must be able to appear strong on its own. That’s the best way to deter war. If you want peace, show strong defence capabilities.
INFORMATION AND TRUTH ARE ALSO A WEAPON
- What message would you send to Canadians who see Ukraine’s war as distant or someone else’s problem?
- I’d reinforce the point that what happens over there affects us here. In a world where trade patterns, demographics, supply chains, and political ideologies are getting more complicated and connected, tensions can spill over very quickly. We’ve seen that in Ukraine, and in many other regions around the world, from the Middle East to the Korean Peninsula, and beyond. So Canada must be prepared to dig deep, contribute more to defence and security, and help our friends - not just by writing cheques, but by sending usable military equipment if they’re fighting to defend themselves, and, in part, to defend all of us.
- How do you see the role of truth and information in modern warfare?
- Disinformation and propaganda have long been tools of war - in that sense, nothing new. But what is new is the speed and reach of social media, and the ability to influence people using fake news. You have to be constantly on the lookout. Adversaries will try to influence elections, votes, and public opinion - as we’re seeing in Ukraine and in other parts of the world. So this isn’t just a defence and security issue - it’s also an education effort. Governments will have to think more seriously about warning and informing their citizens.
Maksym Nalyvaiko, Ottawa
Photos: instagram/lt.gen.hon.andrewleslie