In the run-up to the election in Hungary, the media space was blown up by the reports by Hungarian investigative journalists about the alleged conspiracy between Hungary and Russia to the detriment of EU’s interests. The leaks of sensitive information to Moscow by foreign minister Szijjarto and kind offers of various help to the Kremlin by Prime Minister Viktor Orban sparked sharp reactions in Brussels, raising concerns of the extreme vulnerabilities of EU decision-making. A group of European parliament members, including Petras Austrevicius, penned a letter to EP President Roberta Metsola, where some of these concerns were voiced.

As the election results in Hungary brought relief to many across Europe, Ukrinform sat down with Petras Austrevicius to discuss the ways to prevent or minimize the impact of Russian infiltration of EU institutions, the things to expect from the new government in Budapest in their relations within the EU and with Ukraine, as well as the potential reform of EU-level decision-making to prevent any leader from obstructing constructive cooperation of member states.

MAGYAR’S DECLARATIONS ARE GOOD, NOW ACTION IS EXPECTED

- The EU is relieved to see the results of the election in Hungary, where a 16-year rule of Viktor Orban has come to an end. His opponent Peter Magyar has sealed a landslide win and can now form a new government with constitutional majority in parliament. What changes do you expect of the new leader?

- I'm looking forward to seeing Hungary again being back as a constructive partner. It wasn’t. It became an obstacle which has long obstructed so many issues related to geopolitical, geostrategic interests of the European Union, and indeed, much related to Ukraine, the so much needed major response from the European Union.

We've been out of the water for too long. The damage done by Orban to the EU is immense. Orban's government broke the principle of solidarity. It broke a principle of good neighborly relations with Ukraine, and indeed - it's proven now - the government had been leaking sensitive information to our rival, meaning Russia, and probably China.

The latter remains undiscovered, but I guess it would be interesting to investigate also this part of Orban’s cooperation with another major challenger for the EU.

I'm looking forward to a major shift from previous constraints, problems, and a non-cooperation-based approach. Indeed, the government of Hungary must act. The declarations up to now have been good, but I'm looking forward to a formal relief of embargo, the policy change. There is a good possibility we will review this broken cooperation within the European Union into something different, which is so much needed.

- There have been fears that external interference in the Hungarian elections might help Orban swing votes in his favor but it didn't work. What do you think was the reason behind the success of Magyar’s party and the failure of Orban’s Fidesz?

- Hungarian electorate didn't trust any promises any longer. The social economic situation is so bad in Hungary. In the last three years, there has been below one percent of economic growth and the national debt to GDP ratio of nearly 75 percent exceeds all the limits allowed by the European Union.

People just don’t believe those words when reality proves something different. After all, they’ve heard so much from the European Partners about what is wrong with Hungary. This was much different than what the ruling politicians were offering, suggesting, and promising. So I guess the principle “enough is enough” worked well in this regard for Magyar’s Tisza party, and I hope this is really a change after Orban’s 16 years in power.

EU SHOULD ESTABLISH ITS OWN INTELLIGENCE SERVICE AMID LEAKS OF SENSITIVE INFORMATION

- Returning to the leaks from European institutions allegedly committed by Hungary to Russia, which was exposed by the Hungarian investigative journalists. The group of MEPs, you included, recently wrote a collective letter to EP President Roberta Metsola, calling for action in terms of preventing, or at least minimizing, the potential impact of such leaks in European Parliament. What exactly are your concerns about information security in these walls?

- My concern is definitely about the actual leaks from certain Members of European Parliament who openly express opposition to European Union’s policies. They do not even try to hide their affiliation with the points of view that are absolutely different to those of the European Union.

The thing is, they are allowed to take part in camera meetings. Although we have to give up our electronic means of communication before such meetings, if they are in the room, they can take all the notes. Also, they can ask some most provocative questions in order to probably test some aspects that are important to them.

But most the most interesting part of this all is the teams of those MEPs.

- Are they not vetted for integrity?

- They are not checked enough for transparency and affiliations. If you look at those who work daily, almost 24 hours a day, they might present a standing threat to European Union interests. They don’t undergo a serious background check. That's why we have to get more serious about vindication. And it's not about limiting the space of democracy or the right to express your views. I think we are entering an absolutely different stage of our existence. We are under the threat, which is – finally – recognized by the European Union, by all statements of the leadership. And we have to get serious about how we protect our interests and limit third, unfriendly, rival countries’ access to our sensitive and confidential information.

Some experts concluded from our letter that, finally, the European Union should establish its own intelligence service. We have our European Prosecutor’s Office, we have Frontex, but we don't have the institution, which protects EU interests from leaks, from infiltration into our circles.

We present a great interest for those actors I mentioned. They can be trying to gain access to our data or probably even influencing some of our colleagues to act on their behalf, as it was sometimes the case before.

IF HUNGARIAN OFFICIALS COMMITTED TREASON, IT’S HUNGARY WHO SHOULD INVESTIGATE THAT

- Peter Magyar suggested that Hungary’s cooperation with Russia could be investigated by EU prosecutors. What is your take on this idea?

- The new government should do its work. It's primarily the Hungarian internal domestic issue. If they ask for outside investigators, such as the European Prosecutor’s Office, to step in, it would be legitimate, but they have to start from themselves. It's a issue for Budapest to start the cleaning process.

Also, knowing typical Hungarian sensitivity toward any push from outside, it would be very advisable for them to follow up on their commitments voiced throughout the campaign.

It must be a lesson, and it must be a protective measure, a kind of firewall for national and European interests being sold or given away in favor of third countries.

At the end of the day, it’s a crime. And if a Hungarian national committed a crime, for example, treason, it should be seriously investigated by the Hungarian side first, as a starting point. And then if there is a need, if there is a relevant request, it could be followed by the EU.

VOTE BY QUALIFIED MAJORITY IS LONG OVERDUE

- After the elections in Hungary, President of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen seized the moment to bring up once again the problem of national vetoes in EU-level decision-making. She called for the qualified majority vote on the issues related to EU foreign policy. Do you share the idea that now is the right moment to make that push or is the issue not ripe enough?

- I think the issue is long overdue. For too long it’s been a hanging issue of inefficiency of the European Union.

I do commend the statement by von der Leyen – but I'm looking forward to hearing such a statement from European Council President Antonio Costa. A silence from the European Council shows that probably there is no big appetite to step in and do something. Of course, that’s because the member states must agree first on this reform. This is a complex issue, and there are too many things on the table, from simplification to EU enlargement. It would be great if these developments served as enough of an argument to push the reform through, but politicians tend to forget things very quickly as other pressing issues come up on the agenda.

My belief is that we have to act to prevent any new Orban from coming on stage and again taking the whole European Union hostage.

HUNGARY WILL BENEFIT FROM UKRAINE BECOMING AN EU MEMBER

- Ukraine’s Foreign Minister Andrii Sybiha stated following the Hungarian elections that Ukraine is ready to renew mutually beneficial cooperation with Hungary, including on the issue of national minorities. Indeed, there’s hope for the newly opened doors in the bilateral relations. What do you think about such prospects?

- Hopefully, it will be a very sincere relationship that will benefit both parties, which indeed expressed interest for normalizing and probably expanding bilateral cooperation. Because it's in the interest of both sides, definitely both need more cooperation, understanding, and sometimes more closed-door discussions and explanations before coming up with more or less joint response.

Frankly, it is much in the Hungarian interest to see Ukraine in the EU. If we look at the European Union’s history, all countries benefited from their neighbors becoming members or in one or another way engaging more effectively in cooperation with the European Union. Economically, it's a huge win-win.

That's why we have so many programs on cross-border cooperation because we know this principle.

Still, there are some sensitivities based on some historical prejudice. And we know how slowly they die out. So that's why it's not just only politicians’ work. I'm looking forward to people from the field of culture, some acclaimed public figures coming out to talk, building more bridges - cultural, historical, cross-border – to make a natural pathway for politicians.

For one thing, the European Union stands ready to contribute to this. The whole region would contribute and benefit definitely much more from sincere and efficient Hungarian-Ukrainian cooperation, let alone the geopolitical, geostrategic situation.

UNBLOCKING UKRAINE LOAN AND RUSSIA SANCTIONS SHOULD BE SEEN AS ONE PACKAGE

- We also share your expectations, but there’s one thing I’d like to bring up – Hungary’s stance on EU sanctions against Russia. While there have been signals from Magyar that he would not continue the blocking of the EU loan for Ukraine, there have not been any statements as regards this topic. What are your expectations? Will the new government hold this issue in limbo?

- I hope not. I see it as a package. We can’t separate one thing from the other. It's all too serious, too important to see both things moving at the same time. It would be a disaster if the new government has again a specific point of view on sanctions. Nothing has changed. Even the Easter ceasefire was violated by Russia so many times. I see no reason to trust the Russian side. We have to use our sanctions policy line as we did before, so the sooner the better we see a package deal, and I hope Magyar, if he is asked about this, will provide a very clear answer.

Ievgen Matiushenko, Brussels

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