Oleh Apostol, Brigadier General of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Commander of the Airborne Assault Force

For this Victory Commanders-series interview, Ukrinform invited Brigadier General Oleh Apostol, Airborne Assault Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Commander, to talk about his combat career, a sense of revenge, the understanding of his own mission, and how he views victory for Ukraine. We additionally discussed Ukraine’s military incursion into Russia’s Kursk Oblast, the battle for Serebryanka Forest, the fortifications building campaign, and Web woes of fake experts.

A holder of the Cross of Military Merit, a full knight of the Order of Bohdan Khmelnytsky, and a Hero of Ukraine, Oleh Apostol embarked on his combat career in 2014, fighting in Donetsk, Luhansk, Kharkiv, Mykolaiv, and Sumy regions and in the Kursk region of Russia.

- Our meeting has been postponed several times. This conversation takes place at nine in the morning, but this is not your first meeting today. What does your typical day look like? Do you always stay in touch from early morning?

- There are certain briefings held at mornings and evenings, and there may be a meeting with someone. It happens differently, sometimes there are a lot of them. Sometimes I go and see commanders of the units in trouble. Then you need to concentrate, assess the state of affairs. And there are also meetings with various entities, with defense forces for keeping interaction in place.

- Do you visit brigades directly? How do you communicate?

- I am in touch with them 24 hours a day. I can organize a VCC (video conference call, - ed.), I can just dial by phone, but where the situation is critical, then, of course, it is better to go and handle the situation on the spot.

- So, you always know about the firsthand realities on the ground?

- Yes, I know about the realities up to an individual observation post. The situation in the operational zone depends on this and it gives its result. We have lost almost nothing in two months and even advanced forward. This is what the mastery of the situation really is, and this is the collective outcome resulting from the work done by each and every unit and subunit.

- Could you tell us more about the Kursk incursion? You have already said that particular objectives have been achieved, but time has passed and certain conclusions can be made. The Kursk incursion is over. Was it worth it?

- I was making preparations for this operation, but I had to relocate the brigade to the Toretsk sector, because the situation there was critical. We were deployed out there for a month and a half, and I was reassigned for the operation in the Kursk region. We had very little time, just a few days for preparation, but despite this, when we launched the Kursk incursion operation, everything worked out well. We achieved all the objectives at hand. The capture of a small outpost - Malaya Loknya - was especially illustrative. All Russian forces who were retreating from the border and Sudzha, hiding in a three-story building, in a correctional facility, in nearby buildings were pulled up to the Kursk region. I already thought it would be like it was in Toretske -- lengthy assaults on brick buildings -- but a quick encirclement and timely decisions gave their result.

However, we had thought it through correctly: we deployed equipment, tanks, FPV drones. We very quickly occupied and mopped up the buildings, encircled the area. This reverberated through the Russians. Their chief of staff, who then was lucky to come out alive (lucky, because the correctional facility was for female criminals and we did not fire on it, just used some equipment against buildings where there were no bars), was awarded the title of hero. The battalion commander who died in this engagement was as well awarded the title of hero. We took revenge on the enemy for our territories, for our soldiers and people. I think they will remember this operation for the rest of their lives.

- Was there anything that surprised you while crossing the border into the Kursk region?

- Yes. It surprised me to hear people in villages speaking Ukrainian. There was no aggression from the people, I talked to some of them. Their mood was easy to understand; after all, the troops entered with weapons in their hands, but there wasn’t any explicit hostility from them.

- What objectives did this operation achieve?

- First, we pulled back enemy forces, particularly the 810th Marine Brigade from the Toretsk sector among others. Second, we foiled the Russians’ plans to create a buffer security zone in the Sumy region. And so it happened. This is a truly powerful military operation. We acted with breakthroughs, bypasses, maneuvers. We were capturing settlements very quickly, taking platoon field headquarters. Remember all the talk about "red lines"? We crossed the border - is that not a red line? I think it is a very thick bold red line. And nothing followed. We proved that no “red lines” actually exist, we just need to act quickly and toughly. And the Europeans saw this and began to act in our support.

- And what about casualties? Particularly in your brigade?

- The enemy had suffered really huge losses. We destroyed their units, including Wagner units in a matter of the first few days. There were as well Kadyrov soldiers, we took them prisoner. There is a confirming video on official social media pages of the 95th Separate Airborne Assault Brigade. Moreover, look at how incapable Russia was to cope with this, it even had to involve the troops from a foreign country. As for my brigade, the losses were minimal. We did not lose a single key position. We held on to every bush. There were various enemy units fighting out there. We cleared them out and destroyed them. In such a case, we lost almost none of our positions. During that time, we were holding two dams and did not lose a single one despite numerous enemy attacks with vehicles and infantry. I think that if it were not for the DPRK troops, this operation would still be ongoing, and Russia itself would not have been able to do anything. Basically, aside from the year 2022 when we were not yet ready, did the Russians have at least one successful operation where they were able to break through into tens of kilometers? None. And we have several where they broke down. Their superiority is in human resources. But if everything were done honestly, they would not have held out. They claim to have a “powerful” army. If so, why then do they ask for help from [North] Korea or Iran?

- Have you talked to the POWs?

- Yes. But as you may understand, a person in captivity will say what we want to hear. They tried to arouse pity, saying they were abandoned, they knew nothing. Sometimes you can extract some information of interest, about command posts, for example. But they are basically saying what we want to hear from them.

- Amid widespread claims circulating across social media, reports have recently emerged alleging that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are about to launch a counteroffensive in the Sumy region. Is that true?

- Who is commenting on this news? The one who heard something somewhere and is now analyzing and assessing something. There are so many of them among us in Ukraine, those who want them not to be forgotten. Let them sit quietly. Official sources from the Armed Forces of Ukraine and no one else are empowered to provide assessments. First, we need to study what a counteroffensive is.

- And what is the situation now?

- We have got the situation stabilized. We have fought back two villages, brought the fresh enemy offensive to a halt, and cleared out sabotage groups. Now we are gradually moving forward, holding our positions. We have already made one surprise for the enemy, the one that causes it heavy losses and unable to do anything. This is not a counteroffensive in the classical sense - we are returning what is ours and holding the line of defense. We see that the people of Sumy have calmed down, because they were worried about their city, just like we are.

- Do you often see incompetent comments on the media landscape?

- A lot, particularly on Facebook. People don't understand, they don't see the overall picture. Someone reported about "ten people reaching Ukrainian rear positions” and then it grows to "three hundred." Therefore, you need to listen to those who are actually leading the operation or actions, and not everyone in a row. Recently, there were comments about a Russian breakthrough in the Pokrovsk direction. One has to understand what a breakthrough is. A breakthrough is where several brigades or units with equipment enter an area from flanks and continue to advance. Where one or two dozen "monkeys" run through the ravines somewhere, it's nothing like a breakthrough. Critically, where field commanders don't tell the truth, this turns into a problem. The higher command has to make decisions quickly, responding to changes in the situation. Yes, this is a war, the frontline is fluctuating. We can knock them out today, and they will push us back tomorrow. There are people who constantly comment on Facebook or somewhere else, because they live by this. It’s true that they had attempted to break through flanks, but those who broke through have already been obliterated.

-- You were appointed Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in November 2024. What are your greatest accomplishments in this position? What goals did you set for yourself for the future?

- I took on new tasks in the field of training, gained valuable experience and useful acquaintances that help me in this position now. Together with my team, we significantly raised the level of combat training, which was verified and confirmed by the Main Inspectorate of the Ministry of Defense. It is essential that we were working as a team, and not separately. At that time, President [Zelensky] fully supported our initiatives, approving and providing everything that I asked for at meetings of the Headquarters of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief -- from funding for the material base and the development of training centers and brigades to raising extra payments for instructors. The Commander-in-Chief reacted positively as well. Thanks to this, we managed to implement a number of important projects that are already yielding results and will have a significant impact in the future. We have updated the training program. The working group included representatives of various brigades of the Marine Infantry Headquarters, the Ground Force Headquarters, and in particular representatives of the 3rd Assault Brigade and Azov Brigade, 354/169 training center, and, of course, the Airborne Assault Force. Together they rewrote the program, and it now provides what is really needed on the battlefield and what training centers should strive for in terms of increasing and improving their material base for education and training.

- Would you answer the same question regarding your position as commander of the Airborne Assault Force?

- In this position, my major accomplishment is the stabilization of the situation in the Sumy region. But this is not only my merit. After all, there is no I in team. This team is composed of the Commander-in-Chief, members of the General Staff, members of my headquarters and of the units proper, those who are fighting there and holding on thanks to their steadfastness and heroism. Even the local authorities, the head of the regional military administration assisted in providing a quick resolution to the issue, and even the President's Office helped. When the need arose to solve engineering issues, to set up boundaries, the response was quick in coming, everything had been done. The President and the Commander-in-Chief also visited the frontline regions more than once, conversed with soldiers, listened to the problems. Then these issues were raised at meetings of the Headquarters of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief and resolved. I also announced several "surprises" for the Russians. I would not describe this in detail, but you can already see some of the outcomes on social media videos. We are currently finalizing this so that in the future the enemy will suffer greater losses. Our key challenge is to prevent the enemy from advancing further into the Sumy region, because our people are living there.

- What is the situation with respect to building fortifications in the Sumy region?

- We are building a robust net of fortifications and engineering barriers in that region. Defensive lines are made so that they are not visible from the air and can withstand drone and artillery strikes. Kill zones have been created where the enemy is going to suffer heavy losses. Rivers have been blocked and forest strips converted into defensive lines. It will be very difficult for the enemy to assault. We have almost completed this work, and this will strengthen our defense significantly.

- Does the Airborne Assault Force structure need a restructuring to better meet new threats and strategic goals, in your opinion?

- As regards the Airborne Assault Force, it is already a robust structure with strong commanders. There may be certain nuances, but operations are basically well-coordinated. The main thing is not to break it down.

- Let's talk about you. What made you choose a military career?

- To be honest, I didn't plan it at first. My father was a military serviceman, but I loved strategy games since childhood. I used to buy toy soldiers, arrange them, invented scenarios, and fought with them for several hours. It fascinated me. Then I accidentally saw a newspaper with an advertisement of the department of the Airborne Assault Force in Odessa, and I decided: I will be an Airborne trooper and only an Airborne trooper.

- Have you ever felt disappointed in the profession you had chosen?

- I have never regretted this choice. It was difficult, especially psychologically, but invariably fascinating. I commanded a platoon, a company, a battalion, a brigade. My guys are very strong soldiers. In each case, we performed all the tasks confidently and successfully. And now I believe that this is the right path. I see my contribution to the independence of the state. We destroyed thousands of opponents. For me, this is also retribution for the historical tragedies of Ukrainians - for the Holodomor, Kruty, for all generations. I know: I have fulfilled my mission of revenge for the sufferings of the Ukrainians. Under my command, we have destroyed a great many of our enemies and continue to do so.

- When you embarked on this path, the military was not in its best period, a period of decline. Many people went the opposite way then.

- Yes, it was funny to look at it from the side, especially at some generals. Instead of providing real combat training, a person used to teach only what he himself knew how to do. And he only knew how to practice formations and movements on a parade ground or protection against weapons of mass destruction. Of course, politeness and compliance with service regulations are necessary, but it must not be too much, since there are much higher priorities in the military. At times it got to the point of absurdity: soldiers used to practice marching drills for half a day, then undergo a drill inspection, checks that the "elephants" had their trunks raised up, or pencils were all sharpened. The badge on the uniform could be changed at least several times. And 2014 showed that all this does not work. Mobilization campaign was a failure. People were trained just to tick mark a box, and they were proud of themselves! But instead, there should have been provided in-depth individual training for soldiers and a training in critical thinking for officers.

- And what helped you become an effective commander under those conditions?

- It depends on each individual person in the first place, on the commanding officers you are serving with, on their personality, the ability for self-development, for analyzing and predicting, etc. This determines what kind of soldier one will become.

- In 2014, you saw your first combat engagement as part of a reconnaissance squad. Where and when did your true combat history begin?

- The first serious engagement took place when the 79th Brigade was caught ambushed in front of me, and I was tasked to deliver artillery to a certain area. I had to make decisions to ensure the equipment is not destroyed by the enemy. We completed the task and avoided being got into an ambush, which was as close as 300-400 meters away from us, literally. This is what my first combat engagement looked like. This was how things were developing until I understood: I may not like it, but those are the orders, and they must be executed rightly.

I never refused to carry out orders from the command, but I always suggested alternative solutions where I saw a threat. And the commanders accepted them. For example, when I saw that there was a hill on the way where we could be caught ambushed, I suggested first sending in a reconnaissance squad – an element attached in support of our unit, deployed among the convoy to check for security risks and mop up the path encounters, thus clearing the way for us to follow and assault the designated objective. Due to this solution, everything worked out well for us.

- You were fighting in battles for Sloviansk and the Luhansk airport, and participated in the operation to remove blockade from the Mykolaiv Thermal Power Plant. How would you summarize this experience? What was most memorable from it?

- The most memorable situation was when our convoy was caught ambushed twice and we escaped safely both times. It’s not often that one gets out of an ambush alive, but we were able to do it because we made the right decisions in time, roughly speaking - we anticipated it.

In the first case, I ordered a detachment to deploy and keep a dangerous area under control. That was exactly where the enemy showed up. Ours reacted in time and repelled the attack. In the second case, when we were moving across a bridge, we set up a barrier consisting of two tanks and a detachment on an armored personnel carrier. And when they opened fire on us from several directions, our tanks immediately fired back, dismantling the ambush to pieces. Had it not been for this precaution, we would have simply been annihilated out there on that bridge. This is an example of how foresight saves lives. And that period taught us good experience.

In 2022, the Armed Forces of Ukraine had already significantly surpassed the Russian military in strength. The Russians indeed surpassed us in manpower and equipment, but we surpassed them in terms of analysis, approaches, technology and training. Indeed, they too have developed themselves; the enemy must not be underestimated. But we faced their army in 2022 in the state in which ours was before 2014.

- How did you meet the full-scale invasion? How did you act, what were the first orders?

- I met the full-scale invasion while at the training ground. I don't really like sleeping in barracks. So I spent the night outdoors, in a folding bed. Actually, I understood what was starting when the first missiles began flying in.

We were tasked with preparing for airborne assault operations. Afterwards, we were redeployed to the areas of the Kakhovka hydroelectric power station and the Antonivka Road Bridge. An hour later, the enemy passed over the railway part of the bridge. We found ourselves encircled in Kherson, after the enemy took control of the bypass road and launched an advance towards Mykolaiv. With up to 150 personnel under my command, I had to decide what to do. There were various options suggested: to stay in place, act as a recon and sabotage team, disguise as civilians, or disperse and hide in people’s houses. But I chose to withdraw everyone. At night, driving in first gear and with headlights out, our convoy moved unnoticed past their checkpoints, bringing us out of the encirclement. Afterwards, we were assigned to the defense of Voznesensk.

- Would you tell us about the 95th Airborne Assault Brigade. How did it transform under your leadership? What did you manage to change and how?

- We have achieved it so that soldiers hold firm their positions and never retreat. The 95th is a very steadfast, persistent and professional brigade. Seriously, I am very proud of it. I think the 76th Division of the Russian Federation was among those who felt their effectiveness when its units fought against us in the Serebryanka Forest, as did other Russian army units that we encountered. They would probably give us a better description than I can.

- Is the Soviet legacy still persistent in the Ukrainian military?

- The Soviet legacy is still persistent, indeed. Many generations will pass until it is got rid of it. But this war is accelerating the process, distancing us further away from Russia. The key here is not to have a short memory so as not to go backward.

- How has the Ukrainian army changed, and what should it be like after Ukraine’s victory?

- Like I said above, the year 2014 helped us in that, in 2022, we faced the Russians prepared an order of magnitude better. Commanders’ initiative, unorthodox decisions and solutions – this all gave us what we have now. In the future, the army should be even more technological, modern, more relying on engineering, drones, critical thinking. And we definitely have to learn lessons from those challenging issues that we discarded previously.

Regarding victory, I am a realist. We cannot afford losing millions of people like Russia does. For me, victory is in preserving people’s lives, preserving our statehood and achieving a diplomatic settlement on our terms. There should be a truce in place, but on Ukrainian terms, with security guarantees, which is what the President of Ukraine is currently seeking to achieve.

Diana Slavinska led this conversation