Matthias Schmale, UN Resident and Humanitarian Coordinator in Ukraine

Mr. Schmale was appointed to his current position in August last year. He has over three decades of experience in international humanitarian operations. He has worked with the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies, held senior positions at the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) in Lebanon and Gaza, and coordinated programs in Africa and Nigeria. A German by origin, he grew up in Botswana, South Africa, and near Berlin, and from childhood was concerned with the problems of apartheid and injustice.

He recently stated that he does not feel optimistic about an end to hostilities in the Russian war.

We speak with Matthias Schmale about ongoing peace efforts, UN assistance to Ukraine, and the challenges of the current winter.

DESPITE THE WAR, THE UKRAINIAN AUTHORITIES ARE ABLE TO ENSURE THE WELL-BEING OF THEIR CITIZENS

– Mr. Schmale, on December 3, the UN General Assembly adopted a resolution calling on Russia to return the abducted Ukrainian children. How important is this document?

– Children abducted or displaced to Russia is a highly emotive issue. For Ukraine’s politicians and citizens, it is crucial that these children are returned to live safely and with dignity.

The General Assembly’s resolution sends a strong message of support, which is appreciated on the ground.

– In an interview, when asked why some people stay in dangerous areas along the front line, you said that they believe they must stay to honor those who have lost their lives, defending the country. Putin's propaganda claims that Russia is "liberating" territories from Ukrainians. How would you respond to such statements?

– Let me clarify that the reason you quoted is only one aspect of why people stay.

I cannot comment on what Russia claims is happening on the ground. I can only describe what I see on the ground. And what I see, is continued carnage: people being killed and injured, vital public infrastructure being destroyed — including schools and health facilities.

This must stop. It is neither right nor fair. As our Secretary-General has repeatedly said, the full-scale Russian invasion violates the UN Charter and Ukraine’s territorial integrity, and the international community must work to restore respect for these principles.

– Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov claims every time he visits the UN that the tragedy in Bucha was fabricated by nationalists and staged by the British. What would you say to him if he repeated this to your face?

– I would respond as I have here. I can only describe what I have observed and what credible sources on the ground report.

I was not present in Bucha in 2022, but Ukrainian civilians, human rights workers, and NGOs — credible witnesses — have described it in vivid terms. I cannot see how this could have been invented. It really happened.

– You also said that Ukraine is by no means an "failed state", and remains a functioning state delivering services under extraordinarily difficult circumstances. It seems you are countering Kremlin propaganda with this statement. Could you elaborate on that idea?

– What I meant is that in my experience working in humanitarian contexts worldwide, there are failed states where internationally supported humanitarian operations are critical for people’s survival. In Ukraine, humanitarian work is also essential, but it complements a government that continues to function despite the war.

This is not a state that has collapsed. The Ukrainian authorities are largely able to maintain services and ensure the safety and well-being of citizens, though they rely heavily on international support. The humanitarian operation strengthens, rather than substitutes for, government capabilities.

I’VE NEVER SEEN “NATIONALISTS” IN UKRAINE.

– We see that because Russia is unable to advance on the battlefield, it has intensified shelling of cities, claiming to fight “nationalists.” Have you ever encountered any of the nationalists the Kremlin claims to be fighting?

– No, I have not seen any of this. Ukraine has over 30 million people, so I haven’t met everyone, but in my dealings with authorities, citizens, and NGOs, I have not come across this phenomenon.

– You note the significant risks for Ukrainians from Russian strikes during the winter period. How reliable is the heat and power infrastructure? Does the UN have contingencies to mitigate impacts?

– We are very concerned about winter. The UN and its humanitarian partners are supporting rural areas near the front line with cash, winterization, and solid fuel assistance. So far, we have reached one million people out of the 1.7 million we aim to support, but we are underfunded.

The bigger concern is urban areas like Kharkiv, Dnipro, and smaller front-line cities, where energy infrastructure destruction has escalated. Recovery work cannot keep pace with damage. If the winter is harsh and energy destruction continues, we risk a catastrophe — thousands of people in high-rise buildings without heating or water.

DURING PROLONGED CRISES, FUNDING ALWAYS DECREASES

– Regarding UN assistance — is it enough?

– The international community has been generous, with more than $4 billion in 2022, $2.6 billion in 2023, and $2.2 billion last year.

Funding is decreasing this year, which always happens during prolonged crises, and we are still underfunded. For example, our winter plan aims to assist vulnerable people near the front line; so far, 65% of the funding has been secured, reaching one million people.

– Almost every day you publish statements about the Russians attacks. Is it difficult to search for any other words every time, so as not to repeat the same thing, because the situation repeats itself?

– It is challenging, but I work with experienced media advisors to find ways to describe the facts creatively. Attacks result in deaths, injuries, and destruction, and there are limits to expressing this differently.

The UN has no army, our weapons are words, moral authority, and advocacy. We must speak clearly about what happens and hold violators accountable.

– Do you spend most of your time in Kyiv, or on trips in Ukraine?

– My base is Kyiv, but I travel outside every second or third week. Most humanitarian work occurs countrywide, with priority in the east near the front line. I visit these areas to monitor operations and speak to authorities.

Travel is by road or train for safety.

For example, trips to Dnipro take five hours, Kharkiv five to six hours, plus additional time to reach the front line. I usually spend two to three days in these regions to observe and meet affected people.

YOU CANNOT NEGOTIATE THE FUTURE OF A COUNTRY WITHOUT ITS OWN PARTICIPATION

– What would you say about Russia’s “wish list” that Ukraine cede part of Donetsk and reduce its army in exchange for a ceasefire? And do your assessments coincide with what Ukrainians think about the current international diplomacy aimed at ending the war, involving the United States and Europe?

– The UN has been clear that Russia’s 2022 invasion violates the UN Charter and Ukraine’s territorial integrity.

As UN Resident and Humanitarian Coordinator, I can say it is clear that you cannot negotiate the future of a country at war without the country being at the table.

There is skepticism about negotiations with the Kremlin if Ukraine is not fully involved. Red lines are clear: negotiations cannot lead to ceding territory — whether currently occupied by Russian forces or not — and no elections should take place during wartime.

Handing over territory would be unfair and unacceptable.

Ukrainian civilians and officials alike emphasize that the conflict must end, but not at any cost.

Regarding European support, international solidarity is appreciated — from Europe, as well as Canada, Japan, and others. While there are concerns about sustaining support over time, I have not heard anyone say that the international community, including Europe, is failing Ukraine.

– Do you think politicians and international journalists pay enough attention to Ukraine when compared with how they discuss the situation in the Middle East?

– Every major crisis deserves attention — Gaza, Palestine, Sudan, Myanmar, Ukraine. My role is to ensure Ukraine is not forgotten and that the international community continues to support and monitor the situation.

Volodymyr Ilchenko, New York

Photos provided by the author and UNEP/MFA